Muscle Car Market

[ZA Perana]

Rassie's Fairmont GT for sale thread made me think a bit about this. Clearly there is not much market in SA for GT's but one must ask if there is much market in SA for muscle cars per se, a search of Gumtree reveals cars that have been for sale for months, there is seemingly no movement at all, sellers aren't lowering prices and there seem to be no buyers.

I keep a close eye on the classic car market and I have to say the demand for British cars has been super high over the last year, E type Jags are surging in price like never before, 30-40% increase and these cars are selling at these prices.

Friend of mine runs a fairly large classic car dealership, they specialize in a variety of cars but are weary of muscle cars, looking at the current market its clear to see there is some merit in this approach.

Market is a function of what people are prepared to pay, seemingly people are not prepared to pay R500k for Mustangs and the like but the issue to my mind is much deeper than that.

Look at the British cars, most are original, then look at muscle cars, the same cant be said. What we have is a fruit salad of some well modified cars and some equally poorly modified ones and that's unfortunately the perception that seems to prevail. The level of customisation has become so extensive that in my opinion the casual buyer would rather just steer clear all together because there is no standard, no medium between car and no consistency.

(For the record I don't particularly like British cars)

The crux of the matter is in 2001, R25k bought you a 1965 Mustang, R70k bought you a fastback, today these cars sit at R400k- 700k and there seems to be very little selling happening at these levels. Muscle cars were supposed to be for blue colour workers, the affordable performance car.

I think most of us love muscle cars for the power, the unruly feeling, the looks, the V8 character, unfortunately they now occupy a market where those who love them most cant afford to buy them.

Just my opinion.

[Can-Am ZN]

I had a looong draft reply to this topic but lost it due Eksdom load shedding kicking in whilst I was busy with my last paragraph!

Eks nou nie lus om die hele shpeel weer uit te tik nie

Pateties..!!!

[Bird 455]

ZA, I fear your assessment is riddled with hearsay, inadequate research & I'm also convinced that you have a vendetta against American cars that steadily appreciate(globally) in comparison to local favourites whose value hinges on the mood down under. Just my opinion

[ZA Perana]

ZA, I fear your assessment is riddled with hearsay, inadequate research & I'm also convinced that you have a vendetta against American cars that steadily appreciate(globally) in comparison to local favourites whose value hinges on the mood down under. Just my opinion

Ok point taken, lets take global out of this. If you look how many cars sit perpetually on gumtree its safe to say some are not selling at elevated prices or the muscle car market is smaller than that for other cars. Rest easy for I have no such vendetta .

[Bird 455]

ZA, I still reject your analysis. I do however understand your point. Let's remember that the car you refer to is a coupe converted to a Eleanor but the gents started in front and got a bit confused when they were confronted with coupe rear end. They now just raise the price every year by R200k not to raise suspicion. Let's not use that car as a yard stick. Resembling original I think they sell for good numbers & fast.

[Gavin RS]

Not to get in the way of arguments or opinions but I tend to agree with John as I am following trends in SA all the time due to the work I do and Proper American Classic car sales have dropped. The trend now seems to be...buy a Classic Muscle Car, put stupid looking mag wheels on it, fill it with a major sound system etc etc and have a one off car that will be difficult to sell.

Muscle cars in the USA are a different thing all together with original unmolested mint condition cars going for huge money, more so than a car that has been restored. modernised classic muscle cars are also selling for big money in the USA.

I have recently done some insurance valuations on muscle cars here in SA as well as German and British classics.

One car in particular turned out to be a problem. it was a late 60's muscle car (1968 Camaro Rally Sport) that was totally rebuilt and upgraded with some modern engine parts brakes etc. the new owner paid well over R600k for this car. I went over it thoroughly as I always do and found that the cowl plate and the VIN plate were missing. The car has no ID tags anywhere but is registered correctly with a strange VIN number that does not relate to any US built muscle cars I know.

The new owner was worried as I told him although the car was tip top and very nice but he might have a problem at a later stage and could end up with a law suit on his hands if he sells it again due to the car not having the correct VIN number.
Anyway a few days later he phoned me and thanked me for the advice and got his money back and the original builder took the car back. VIN numbers and other ID tags are an important part of a collectable car and I have seen a few cars here in SA that are registered on the system but VIN numbers are wrong. this detracts from the market as true collectors wont buy these cars. My name is on the valuations so I make sure of all my facts before giving it to the Insurance company. I have seen a few cars lately that are problematic as they are advertised as a proper US Muscle car but when I do my VIN decoding and cowl tag decoding the car is usually a base model 6 cylinder or whatever being passed on as a genuine muscle car. seems CanAm's and Perana's are not the only ones being cloned

Out of all the classic cars we had on the auction on Saturday not one sold BUT an original 1969 VW Fastback 1600TL sold for R62420 ,

British classic cars do seem to be selling though.

The SA market is very strange at the moment

I am waiting for the auction at Mecum USA next week to see what 1 of the original 1967 Mustang (Eleanor) cars from the movie sell for

[ZA Perana]

ZA, Resembling original I think they sell for good numbers & fast.

Perhaps herein is the problem, too few original cars and the market taking a dislike to modified cars.

[johan wepener]

Hi Gavin

A year ago on an Auction in Parow held at the motorshow a Volkswagen Variant, (same

as the Fastback, but a stationwagon) was sold for R60,000. It was super original and extremely neat.

Not very long ago you could pick up these VW's for very cheap.Interesting times.

Johan

[Gavin RS]

Hi John

I agree with you , the modified cars are a personal thing and buyers looking for a proper muscle car wont buy those, just costs too much to put back to original. I still think a matching numbers Muscle Car in original condition will fetch the right money in SA.

Hi Johan

Yip the old VW's in original condition fetch good money, I had a 1969 L twin carb Variant, If only we could have seen the future. I sold a 1974 Combi single cab dropside body pick up in 2009 for R98k (was restored)

[Bird 455]

Good topic ZA. Let's also not forget the shop in Strand that built all those Hurricane Katrina halfcuts. That affected muscle car prices as you no longer knew what you're getting. I think people get very wary once they see that 20 inch replica foose nitro rim & 347 motors with cast heads.... & automatic trans.... Rhd with USB port... We actually have ourselves to blame if we killed the muscle flavour by kitting them like Nicholas Cage's retarded Mexican cousin