Can Am Cornering

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zahistorics
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Re: Can Am Cornering

Post by zahistorics » Mon 24 Mar 2008, 15:26

That's what I thought - so this is the Can Am is that was not yet called a Can Am because they only got that name later.

This little car was awesome - go look For Firenza V8 in the results for 1972 Springbok enduro series. This car was only beaten by serious machinery like Lolas and Chevrons. Came 5th overall on points for the whole series.

Guys, help us unravel another Can Am mystery. Lino thinks this car became the Blue car (No1 BvR Can Am) in 1973. I suspect he is right (he usually is), but I would love to read any articles about it, or hear from people involved, that can confirm this.

Firenza GT

Re: Can Am Cornering

Post by Firenza GT » Mon 24 Mar 2008, 15:52

Became blue/white probably after the 1972 Cape 3 hour. For LM, Hesketh think it was already blue/white not sure will have to go read up. There were only three circuit race cars that's it regardless of various myth's that have done the rounds through the years. Three that went through various colour changes through the years except the flag car which seems to have remained the same colour till it was broken up. Many colours, three cars this was the first one all white with black.

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zahistorics
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Re: Can Am Cornering

Post by zahistorics » Mon 24 Mar 2008, 16:18

I dicovered another interesting point - from photos I got from Dinkie. The Maroon car - which seems to have been more different colours that anything else - was painted white over blue like BvR's car by Dick Mawson when it was in Zimbabwe.

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Hi-Fi
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Re: Can Am Cornering

Post by Hi-Fi » Wed 26 Mar 2008, 18:54

Sorry guys, I've just come on to this forum now. What beautiful pictures! That brings back memories. Firenza, I agree with you 100% regarding the Historcs guys. They should take a look at this site. Thanks for those stats regarding the times these cars got at Killarney. I knew they were fast but not THAT fast! With all the upholstry and weight etc they still make a lot of today's cars look silly. 8O

Firenza GT

Re: Can Am Cornering

Post by Firenza GT » Wed 26 Mar 2008, 19:27

Those times are documented somewhere could have been a report of the 3 hour or something like that. I too was amazed having a bit of understanding about the dynamics of what make a good lap time. From hi-tech rubber, chasis, power, driver, track very imprtant as the track has been improved a lot plus smoother wider lines in places.

When the black Can Am apeared there was mumblings that Owen Ashley this and that. I took one look at that car plus had seen it at the panel shop by chance dismantled to spray after the structural work was done, NO WAY's I said. That car was FASTER than any original race Can Am's that had raced in the 70's. It must be besides the fact it's got a monster motor compared to the original's power and torque plus a matching chasis setup to cope. The reason there was this chatter around Owen's abilities to build race cars was that it was nowhere near 22's of the original race 302's with just 420 horsepower and full trim etc. Probably envy too. However this opinion of Owen was all corrected when Sarel raced it the first time I think he touched 19's in a borrowed car plus also as a retired driver.

So back to the originals, the driver, all of them from BvR, Geoff Mortimer who first had it on two wheels around Clubhause as you can see Nov 1972, Ray Emond, Nols Nieman, Frank Gardner and some other guest drivers to the last that had this wonder airborn the late Paddy O' Sullivan. Des Ally. You got to take something from these guys. I think they set such a standard that even by today to match their spectacular apearances closest is Sarel in a hotrodded, modernised version. On a non wow lap time it's more like a confused classic. part historic, part clubmans, part anything goes class.

Hence my suggestion leave the old crocks as they looked even be it 5 seconds a lap slower. Many of us spectators that also like photography prefer the more original look. There is plenty of the faster stuff in other classes.

Maybe it's just a handfull of us that feel this way I don't know. For a person passionate about Historics it goes beyond Killarney. For another spectator that are maybe unaware of what I explain about superior rubber compounds, smoother wider tracks and all that, it's like having plenty horsepower more and modifications for a present day classic equal an original. They are probably not aware how modified the cars are compared to the 70's.

The matter of fact is that a 2 ltre Sentra ex-touring Nissan peddled in the high 19's on narrower tyres and far less horses than our big classics. The ingredients for that compared with 1973 is the rubber, the track, technology and an equally brilliant driver in this case that I believe will also do 19's in the black Can Am in present day. So one has to take all these things into perspective as I have seen blunt statements about how superior the present cars are to BvR's three etc.

Tone the classics down I say to keep up a more acurate image of the originals be they slower. The legends were and will hardly ever be again and that is fine by many of us. We got to acknowledge their achievements and refrain from just letting untrue reports about how they are overshadowed by present day stuff. That's disrespect.

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Re: Can Am Cornering

Post by Gunter » Wed 26 Mar 2008, 19:49

I agree...imagine a Can Am today (no matter if it is 5 seconds a lap slower) lifting wheels like they did in the 70's, Killarney would be packed to see it..
RACECAR spelt backwards spells RACECAR.....

Firenza GT

Re: Can Am Cornering

Post by Firenza GT » Wed 26 Mar 2008, 20:12

I have a photo here of not too long back with two BMW's think the 330's goung around Hoals both with their inner front wheels in the air old-style but just not as high. So one wonders what sort of work has gone into these classics if those BMW's which are hi-tech themselves still have a trace of 40 years ago

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Hi-Fi
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Re: Can Am Cornering

Post by Hi-Fi » Thu 27 Mar 2008, 08:04

You better not post it, I need my wheels...

Firenza GT

Re: Can Am Cornering

Post by Firenza GT » Fri 28 Mar 2008, 19:44

Hi-Fi I was sort of teasing about your "modern" wheels but in a way half serious. Your Anglia would look nice with Rostyle's or something like that unless you are going to "bling" it. What are those 14's ? I have the same on my Alfa but just 15's. Now I', also thinking of tossing those 15's away as they are a bit out of era. There's also an Escort and a Alfa Junior running with those TSW's I see. Wonder if we can't score something from the Clubman's guys who may have older rims ?

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Hi-Fi
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Re: Can Am Cornering

Post by Hi-Fi » Sat 29 Mar 2008, 23:36

Hey Railway or Firenza GT, I would prefer pressed silver rims but I can't sell any pics to make money. I think this money making business is a load of rubbish, so I am going to concentrate on the history of this great sport of ours and forget about the pictures. Fine cars, classic cars, Historics, Wesbank V8's and the rest I'll leave up to to the professionals to make da money!

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