CHEV 3800 GT

993 Kadett
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Re: CHEV 3800 GT

Post by 993 Kadett » Thu 03 Mar 2011, 20:26

Hey Johan, I must have taken over your old desk! Going to be away for a couple of days so need to get this one out and I'll try to get some more done over the week end:

Well, again the magic of Bob Price shone through. Not being the sort of bloke that would let the opinions of people who could not contribute objectively get in the way, the evaluations of the car were controlled from his office. He had selected a group who were tasked with doing the job and our engineering seniors including Gary had to give a brief technical presentation on the car and its likely place in the market. One thing I did not mention was the fact that we had had a mini engineering launch with the marketing guys some months before to sell them the concept. Now as most of you know, that process is supposed to happen the other way round…..marketing is supposed to press engineering for solutions to marketing needs. But in fairness, the Can Ams, now half way through the 1973 season, were doing the job of paving the way for the GT and performance car hype was definitely in the air at GM and I will say it was a great feeling.

Some things happen slowly in big companies though and this was a big step for GM at the time. The evaluations went very well and the car was a hit with the right people in the organization…The prototype was given the thumbs up But…. the ok for it to become an official project on the product plan had to wait…..

Marketing were tasked with the job of putting together a Raison d'être, a reason for the idea to exist and the normal task of identifying potential markets, sales volumes and profit projections were completed. Product Engineering and Production Engineering had to put forward estimated budgets on development costs and production tooling required to engineer the car & manufacture the Coupe body respectively. Anybody of any real consequence in the organisation realised by now that we needed to move in this direction…. but this was about making sure that the steps we took to do it made sense. The fateful day of the product planning meeting drew near and I must admit I was learning big time that gut feel and technical passion for something could only play a certain part in the job, one had to this thing professionally. There was another issue on the table that we had to appreciate, the budget for the year stated that the only new car launch for the period was going to be the introduction of the 3800 station wagon. The funds for the development and launch had been allocated and the GT represented a development programme of greater proportions but without a budget allocation at all. Again I was learning rapidly that the real world was a little different….This was a point in the project where the task would actually switch on the development programme for production, a very different task to building a prototype to sell as a concept.
Things went very well..... and we were soon blown away by the news that the project had been accepted and would be going ahead as a full production model. I nthink we had a few beers that night........Timing adjustments were made to the launch of the Station Wagon........ Essentially this meant that the project left experimental engineering and was handed to the design guys. Fortunately the design lads had been involved during the Coupe build so it was not a case of something completely new.. That left me to get on with the next phase of the experimental plan and that was to put together the Motherload, the limited production version of the car. The 4300 GT “Can Am” if you will.

If anything, this project was going to be easier than the GT from an overall vehicle perpective, simply because we were not going to make too many changes to the basic GT vehicle other than building a lightweight version. This project was about the engine & I was determined to not only create a unique engine package but the plan was to make GMSA the source of Go Faster kit for the L6 Chevy in the aftermarket..worldwide. The engine job was a big one and we had just received a full drawing package from GM Argentina, where they were running a 408bhp 4litre in a local Formula series. We also realised that with the bigger engine and racing planned for the car we would have to revert to the Muncie 4 speed, the ZF could not handle the torque of the big engine, particularly in race form. It was going to have to be a bit of a compromise as a production car, with short gearing and a rev limiter.

This was around September of 1973 and I was shortly to be given the call to help at the dealer team with the prep of the Can Ams for the 9 hour...... Things were about to go pear shaped.


More on Saturday...P

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zahistorics
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Re: CHEV 3800 GT

Post by zahistorics » Thu 03 Mar 2011, 23:56

Paul, I saw you posted this while I was in ZA, but I 'saved' if for when I was home.

This is great a read! Puts so much of the early 1970s into perspective. Keep it coming.

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Re: CHEV 3800 GT

Post by VMX » Fri 04 Mar 2011, 06:12

Excellent and all makes such sense. Revived interest in something I'd written off. The general story and interest around these things has been everything except this. Without this background for me at least was better messing with old 2-stroke bicycle's as for one the general "Can Am" story has been prostituded so much already with so much fiction few have a clue as to the real story of what actually went on back then. The other side of the coin is that the demise of the 4300 GT asured the Can Am of it's status it still has today. In all this with all the players behind the scene's it is also such that had BvR not pushed for the idea there may not even have been 2 Opel Coupe's brought in for prospective GT projecfts as I can't think of anything that raised such awareness and hype in such a short time here than the V8 Firenza's. BvR could have stayed with Ford and probably none of this would have happened at all as the fuel crisis was looming anyway time was of the essence.

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Re: CHEV 3800 GT

Post by FairmontGT » Fri 04 Mar 2011, 15:27

I think the burning question we all have is how did it happen that the project got dropped?
Yes we did build muscle cars in RSA!!!!
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Re: CHEV 3800 GT

Post by Johann65 » Fri 04 Mar 2011, 17:47

FairmontGT wrote:I think the burning question we all have is how did it happen that the project got dropped?
I now know why the HQ Manaro GTS never came to South Africa!! I was in Australia in 1992 and saw the Holden V8's (Opel) aplenty and it appears only lately that Holden has made a real comeback!! Shall we call it out of the dark Ages? Paul should certainly be able to enlighten us!!
Since we used to sit behind the same desk!!!
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VMX
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Re: CHEV 3800 GT

Post by VMX » Fri 04 Mar 2011, 17:56

FairmontGT wrote:I think the burning question we all have is how did it happen that the project got dropped?
Ja what school is out, I've never wished to get to school on a Monday morning but now upset the teacher has left the building...... :lol: :twisted: :lol:

Johan who knows my buddy probably moved into your and Paul's office in the 80's, that's how close I got the the the General's design department.

I'm going to guess that the 1973 world fuel crisis had plenty to do with it, that's all the Non-performance minded GM brass would have needed to scrap anything that was about to nail a FORD ! :lol: :lol:

993 Kadett
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Re: CHEV 3800 GT

Post by 993 Kadett » Fri 04 Mar 2011, 20:34

Hello Guys,
My apologies - been travelling for the last 14hrs and taken a lot longer than anticipated will get back on stream tomorrow. P

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ZA Perana
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Re: CHEV 3800 GT

Post by ZA Perana » Fri 04 Mar 2011, 21:17

This thread really is incredible, I wasnt around back in those days but these posts are such a joy to read, they really take me back to the golden days of motoring in SA. This first hand account of things at GM is fascinating as well as being awesome to read.

I mentioned to VMX a few months ago that there must be someone around involved at GM at the time who remembers those great days....very glad you joined the forum and are sharing such magic memories with us!

Bob Price, I have a CAR magazine from around 1973, massive GM special, including an interview and today we can look back at Price making GM great in the 70's, well in my humble opinion, he really steered the company of course great products helped too.

Thanks again for sharing with us!
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993 Kadett
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Re: CHEV 3800 GT

Post by 993 Kadett » Sat 05 Mar 2011, 16:47

The thing with all projects I guess, is that you have to deal with the fact that something comes along and bites you in the butt occasionally…. and that’s called life. John Lennon described it best when he said… "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"…. and life was on a rampage just about that time...
Although still something of a starry eyed idealist, & passionate about the task at hand, the situation with the Ranger being summarily removed from us two years before, without so much as a thank you, had hardened me. This made me realize that there were forces out there which we did not fully understand, whether they were circumstantial, or man made….and these required one to have a back-up plan…. I did…. Always…. …. but sometimes not even that can save the day.
A few days after the OK for the project, I was called into Gary’s office and told that after a rethink, the Station wagon project was to go ahead and maintain its given time slot. The GT would have to wait. This was to me a logical process anyway, I knew that the 3800 version of S/W was needed and to me, the request which had evidently come from the dealer council made sense. That was Ok and at least the GT was still in the system. There was, however, a clear and ever present danger, because the project could, even in the normal course of events, have been undermined by this delay…..there were other forces at play. I then played a card which I thought would ensure the future of the project in one form or another whatever happened.
I had packaged the whole programme by making the engine, gearbox and suspension/brake package usable on all 3800/4100 models including the station wagon, where certain parts of the package could be used on an option basis. In other words, if we ran into tooling problem/costs with the coupe and the GT went west, we could still make the basic package available (even in a diluted form if necessary) on the 4 door range as an option, marketing liked the idea at the time. I had even broken the package down to an engine spec which was a bolt-on to both 3.8 and 4.1 engines in almost their stock form, very much like the Weber twin choke on the 2.5…. I really thought that we had this one buttoned up in one way or another. Naturally if the GT did not make it, the 4300 had no chance, but we persevered anyway.

As you say VMX…… enter the fuel crisis of November 1973….. and GM changed course. The GT project would not even make it to the very start of engineering development. The project naturally bit the dust immediately but the alternative noted above kept going and we hung on to the possibility that the mechanical package would at least survive and be kept in the cupboard to be applied at a better time & after the dust had settled. … After all, GM needed to move its image, fuel crisis or not, did it not……..?? That was end 1973... BUT..... in 1974 we were to lose our most prized asset, Bob Price….. I will say this with more conviction than anything I have written in these scribbles to now…. that was the saddest thing that could have happened to GMSA……(the happiest was when he came back many years later to resurrect the company….can anybody guess when?) The point was of course, with him gone, the old guard took over again and any thought of progressive thinking went down the tubes….. This fantastic opportunity of creating something really special …..gone.

The 3800/4100 range was to cruise on through the 70’s without so much as a hub cap change, right up to the model change in 1978. There was the “Golden Anniversary Edition” added to the range in the mid 70’s and did'nt that just typify what was now running the show....but other than that. No Change. The Fuddy Duddies won that round….. Sadly it was to come back and give the General a kick in the butt they were not going to recover from for a long long time. Also history will show that the fuel crisis did not affect the sales of the "1245" series to any greater degree than other product out there and it maintained wonderful sales until around 1975. Beyond that the fact that GM had done nothing began to bite and anyone who takes a look at the demise of the range over the next two to three years will see that the range had no life breathed into it.
There are two huge ironies that played out during this time, both of which make the lack of action by GM during the period extremely sad and I will share both of those with you in my next post. …..P

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ZA Perana
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Re: CHEV 3800 GT

Post by ZA Perana » Sat 05 Mar 2011, 16:52

If I recall correctly Bob Price returned in 1987 or around there to head up Delta Motor Corporation....its amazing what a profound effect the fuel crisis had...
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