The Meissner Thread

[Railway]

The picture thing I've been thinking about it too. The thing is many of us this is pure joy. No bussiness, no means for making a living or even to be more comfortable. Other day I was checking as I got help with the scanning of my stuff there must be THOUSANDS of rand in film and developing in a couple of boxes worth of photo's all taken by me here and all over the country through the years from the seventies. If it were anyone that deserved a 5 cents a photo maybe me and those that have done the same as never was the intention to make money out of it.

The cars same thing. It is so scary out there now especially if you have had a car for a number of years and your salary or income has not kept anywhere near the sort of prices some cars fetch today.

This whole thing is very sensitive and one of the biggest issues these days is that much focus of a balanced freindship/interest aspect in this game has gone a bit off track. I just discussed this a few moments ago with Henry that the days of being as open as one was in the past or without caution are no more. For me if there is'nt a healthy balance of freindship included in this whole classic thing then I stay away. Otherwise I'd be in the motor retail industry or siomething like that. Even the Group N scene was hectic because everything there was pressurised by the corporate monster.

It is rather unfortunate that this may eventually dwindle to private gatherings because the classic car scene is no longer a place of leisure per say. A good picture of it is looking at these old black and white photo's and some of present day imagery.

My last word on this is what I personally experienced as a normal person without excessive resources, the race Firenza issue. Although that has been put to rest and am at peace with who ever frightened the hell out of me never again do I want to get involved in anything like that and it was not a thing that was planned or whatever. It was a situation indicative of the state of the Classic Car scene in many ways today. Maybe it's been fixed I don't know seeing that there is something happening regards the rules and all that as we know.

If this thing is about money then maybe some of us should also catch a wake up and capitalise and hop onto the gravy train. That is the issue, is histroics about money or what ? Because then we that are just posting out even crappy old pics that is money too. What do you say Hi-Fi ?

[Hi-Fi]

I agree Railway. Maybe I should have made money on my horrible little photos and not shared anything with you good people.

I can understand up to point that if you are writing a book about the sport and you incorporate pictures in that book, you will want to sell the said book to make a profit. That is obvious. In fact even if some photographs had been "stolen" the book would still sell because that photo will be shown in context. I have many pictures that I collected years ago that I have seen in some of these books, stuff that I had got from the Fordperformance mags that came out. Suddenly I see them in a published book. Where did the authors get those? Those mags are so out of date Ford don't even remember them, but somehow, someone has scanned an old mag to put the pictures into a book. Was permission asked for that? I doubt it.

What gets to me is that in those books you will see an acknowledgement for a picture that has been published to the, let's say, XYZ Collection. Now, where is this collection? Who is looking at it? What information is stored in that collection that could benefit millions of members on a site like this? Is the collection in a museum where we all can pay to go and look at it? Is a collection such as this going to dwindle into nothing and turn to dust when a member of the family which it belongs to reckons there is no more value to it because time has slipped away and no one will remember those days? When that happens all the photographs/prints and whatever will be thrown away.

I give up. Let all the collections be put on the internet with bold printing over the picture saying "this is a copyright picture", like you can see on Circuitchaser and there will be no more problems. If a picture has no reference to a copyright then it should be fair game.

Just imagine this. On Circuitchaser there is a picture of me in my Anglia. Does anyone think that I should claim royalties for them publishing that picture? Certainly not! Those guys on that site are doing a stirling job and are a service to the sport as is Motorpics!

[Killarney Racer]

But you can't claim royalties anyway - Circuitchaser took the picture not you

[Railway]

Well I've been sending Classic Car Africa pics for a while now and the reason I did that was to promote local Cape Town classics. That's my little contribution for classics. But if you apear in their next issue Hi-Fi just hold it for your royalties coz the gatekeeper took them we paid to get in. We presume you went home with R2500 prize money for your fine result winning that last race !!

[Hi-Fi]

But you can't claim royalties anyway - Circuitchaser took the picture not you

This was purely an example that I was using. It's got nothing to do with whether they took the pictures or not. What I was trying to say is that the pictures are of drivers. What if all drivers said they would not race if pictures were going to be taken of them because there was no financial reward for them? A pop group doesn't play their songs to themselves. They use radio stations to do it for them and they get paid royalties.

[Railway]

The thing is us on the other side of the fence had to pay to watch you okes. Plus buy our own camera's what kind ?

The royalties in Motorsport seem to end up by the organisers. If the racers say they won't race if we take pics of them coz they not getting paid then we have more time to fix our cars at home !

It's now getting complicated since I took my Railway cap off !

If I can't do this for the love of it then I'll stop. But then again if this gravy train can just slow down slightly maybe I'll jump on seeing that Eskom is going to double the price of electricity, fuel going up and all that. Economics, what's that word ?

[Killarney Racer]

I think we should get back to basics here.

Railway you pay to watch us race. We pay the organisers a lot more to entertain you. The sponsor pays us for a coke and hamburger because we advertise for him. And we all take pictures of the entertainment and swop images for ever with no royalties. And then we live happily ever after. Maybe with that sort of thinking we can even help Eskom sort out their problems.

[Firenza GT]

I think the okes that are getting done in at times are the competitors because I have been close to them on their side of the fence and seen how much effort goes into presenting themselves for a race. You guys are paying big fees of sorts be it membership plus this and that before you even think about hooking up your cars. Never mind the manhouers we never calculate that.

This whole thing about should a person or not, like this or not personal opinion and all that. I guess if a person ends up frustrated because of the wheel and deals scaniving, poaching of pictures and so on then it's up to the person to remove him/herself from that situation. So when I for example myself end up neurotic about this stuff it's probably my own fault whether I am right or wrong. I have a choice to be or not to be here.

Bottom line there is no right or wrong ok. OJ Simpson case. Lawyers, money, whatever and you can find yourself as a saint on this planet incriminated for nothing. It is just so that things have accelerated to where we are today full speed.

Plus in anycase if I throw my toys out the cot for something I dissagree with as has been the case life carries on without me anyway. So my take on everything these days is that if it be the case that I get miserable rather leave and not spoil what's left. I'm past that stage and gotten rid of this loyalty clause. There is no such thing anymore it seems. Where there is money there are different rules and by Classics today there is plenty shuffling around of the paper notes.

So Hi-Fi what you going to pay for a pic I want to post buddy ? Lets trade some pics and get those Rostyles for your Anglia ....

[Hi-Fi]

Hey Firenza

What you got there mate? I guess I'll pay whatever it takes. On the other hand maybe it's best I don't spoil it for others. Let's wait and see.

By the way I filled up yesterday at the old Meissner garage, previously Dart Motors, in Paarden Eiland. I last visited there when Oom Koos was starting his campaign in the Mustang and Peter Gough had arrived to take over the Lotus Cortina. This must have been in 1966. We stood there watching Willie Meissner and Brian Ferriera looking the Mustang's engine bay. It must have looked funny with us watching them and nothing going on. The workshop area is still very much the same.

[henryk]

Glad to see someone remembers my late cousin Brian Ferreira. Quite a competent Mini racer he was as well.